rule
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If you read my name, and I pointed out that your pronunciation was wrong, would you tell me my pronunciation is incorrect due to pronunciation rules rather than how my parents named me?
Edit: and I'll just note, a soft g is very well defined, and is usually behind an e, i, or y, while a hard g is typically behind an a, o, or u, but let's focus on the whole "who gets to choose how a name is pronounced" bit for a moment.
let's focus on the whole "who gets to choose how a name is pronounced"
A words meaning and prononciation is collectively decided through usage.
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let's focus on the whole "who gets to choose how a name is pronounced"
A words meaning and prononciation is collectively decided through usage.
So the creator, the way a soft vs hard g is used in the English language, etc, none of that matters.
Noted, enjoy your day.
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So the creator, the way a soft vs hard g is used in the English language, etc, none of that matters.
Noted, enjoy your day.
Girl, gift, gig, giggle, giddy, gizzard, gibbon, girth, girdle.
It's not uncommon.
But yes, what matters most is how people prononce it. Even if this goes against what the creator wants.
The main dictionary websites wouldn't have the hard g prononciation if the creators will was the defining factor.
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If you pronounce gif based on the word itself, it would clearly have a hard "G". I don't think it's decided by the creator anymore then by the words making up the acronym either.
Imo, word pronunciation and meaning depends on whatever "takes" in society. Most just say it like it would sound, the creators pronunciation clearly lost.
That’s just incorrect. Multiple studies have shown that how you think a word is pronounced is based on other words you know, not what the actual pronunciation is. When I first saw the word gif, I pronounced it with a soft g. Turns out that’s the correct pronunciation (because it’s a product name, not a random word) but if I had happen to have heard a hard g word more recently then I probably would have thought it was pronounced the wrong way.
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I mean, they got to name it... How it sounds is part of that
How it sounds is a lot more related to basic prononciation rules then the arbitrary whims of the inventor.
In this case, he chose to name it GIF which is, believe it or not, pronounced gif in the English language. If he wanted to have it sound like jif, he should have named it JIF.
Not to say that we don't sometimes disregard the rules for certain words. Ultimately a words meaning and prononciation is collectively decided through usage. I think collectively, we have chosen to ignore the creators lack of basic linguistic skills and prononce the word how it's written.
In this case, he chose to name it GIF which is, believe it or not, pronounced gif in the English language. If he wanted to have it sound like jif, he should have named it JIF.
Incorrect. There are ZERO rules that decide whether a word starts with a hard g or a soft g.
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There’s no linguistic requirement for any of the letters to match any part of the pronunciation.
I made no statements to the contrary, not sure why you directed any of that first paragraph at me and not the person I responded to. Regardless, the only "correct" pronunciations of any words are the ones that find purchase in the cultural lexicon. The fact that the soft g pronunciation was chosen by a corporation trying to cash in on the success of a different corporation is even less convincing of an argument. Fuck those soulless money-grubbers, they can take their advertising slogan-based neoligisms and shove them in their arse, but pronounced like "ass" because language evolves. You have to evolve with it or you won't understand it.
I mean, the pronunciation of proper nouns doesn’t follow other rules of language. If the creator is still alive and is telling you the correct pronunciation then that’s the pronunciation. It’s a product, a proper noun, not a simple word.
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I didn't cite any reasons and I didn't say that there is a correct and incorrect way to pronounce it now, just that the way they chose to pronounce it originally was arbitrary and unintuitive. Add a "t" to the end, what does that spell? The pronunciations of giraffe and gin are equally unintuitive to modern American English speakers, they're just old words that have been well-established in the lexicon so no one thinks about that. If someone came up with the word gin today, we'd probably be having the same argument about it.
And when I said it's the only argument, I meant it's the only one that holds any water. It's still leaking all over the place.
They’re not unintuitive. Just because you think that doesn’t make it true. Tom Scott has a whole video on the topic, essentially however you first associate that word is how you think it should be pronounced. That doesn’t make it unintuitive, as would be evidenced by the pretty much 50/50 split of usage for soft g vs hard g for years. I had huge arguments about this back in like 2016/7 and it literally was a 50/50 split. Might have changed since then, but that doesn’t mean jack shit about intuitiveness.
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I always felt like this was a weird argument. Language is always in flux. It's why the definition of "literally" now includes a definition that it's a synonym of "figuratively" since people used it that was so much.
If enough people think gif should be pronounced like "god", then it should. If the "jif" pronunciation has enough people who use it, then that's valid, too. Hell, if a bunch of people started legitimately saying it should be a homonym with the word "plankton," even that'd be valid.
Words are about conveying meaning; the same meaning is intended with both pronunciations, and understood by the people hearing it. There's nothing to argue about.
Gif is a proper noun and a computer product. It’s not a simple word like “arse”. This would be like people saying Nike should be pronounced “Nick” and the company “Nike” is yelling “no it’s Nike! Like the god!” And people are just like, “nah I don’t care what you want your company to be called, I’m calling it something else.”
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No I didn’t, you’ve misread.
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Gif is a proper noun and a computer product. It’s not a simple word like “arse”. This would be like people saying Nike should be pronounced “Nick” and the company “Nike” is yelling “no it’s Nike! Like the god!” And people are just like, “nah I don’t care what you want your company to be called, I’m calling it something else.”
There exist countries where Nike rhymes with the name Mike in their language. I'm unwilling to tell people they're not allowed to pronounce it the way their majority does.
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Into heaven you mean, because you passed the test.
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I'll just post my comment from when I ran across this on lemmy before
I’ll tell the agile fragile fugitive gin-drinking giraffes eating ginger ginseng to imagine gingerly using their digits to engineer a geological survey of the gist of your comment. They ate too much gingerbread and now have gingivitis, so the margins of those attracted to religion aren’t as rigid as the original origins of those of that region and we have to remain vigilant lest magic supersede logic, which of course would be terrible for legislation of the legions.
Nice gimmick. Counterpoint: this GIF of some giggly git giving a gilt gizzard and a large haggis to a giddy girl named Gidget. (GIF omitted because I made it tf up). Incidentally, not a single one of your examples included “gi” followed by “f”.
Incidentally, I pronounce it “jif”, I just think appealing to English as if it had actual rules is insane.
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I think I get the gist of this.
(Pronounced with a hard G) ::: this has been another episode of "Explain The Joke Peter"! :::
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The perfect compromise.
We should normalize adding gif gif after tomato tomato.
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Gif is a proper noun and a computer product. It’s not a simple word like “arse”. This would be like people saying Nike should be pronounced “Nick” and the company “Nike” is yelling “no it’s Nike! Like the god!” And people are just like, “nah I don’t care what you want your company to be called, I’m calling it something else.”
If enough people pronounce it differently, then it's a valid way to pronounce it.
It doesn't matter if it's a proper noun, the word is still meant to convey meaning and as long as it effectively does that for the population in general, it's valid.
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Gif is a proper noun and a computer product. It’s not a simple word like “arse”. This would be like people saying Nike should be pronounced “Nick” and the company “Nike” is yelling “no it’s Nike! Like the god!” And people are just like, “nah I don’t care what you want your company to be called, I’m calling it something else.”
and the company “Nike” is yelling “no it’s Nike! Like the god!”
So in this example, are they yelling it like their namesake is actually pronounced ( [niː́kɛː] , the i like in "flee", the e like in "bad"), or in the english pronounciation (i like in "die", e like in "flee")?
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What about this fucking radio station in Germany?:
That's french tho
NRJ ~ energie -
I mean, the pronunciation of proper nouns doesn’t follow other rules of language. If the creator is still alive and is telling you the correct pronunciation then that’s the pronunciation. It’s a product, a proper noun, not a simple word.
It's not a proper noun any more than granola is. Even if that point stood, when you get down to it, there simply are no "rules of language," there is just making noises that other people understand or making ones that they don't. You think proper nouns can't have multiple pronunciations, well what do you call those little yellow, orange, and brown peanut butter candies? How do you say the capital of South Dakota? Speaking of SD, did you know there's a town there called Sinai, pronounced "sigh-knee-eye" by its residents? I legitimately know a guy named Jurgen, one of his parents pronounces it with the J sound and the other pronounces it with the Y sound! It may be infuriating at times but that's just how spoken language works. I urge you to embrace it as fighting it is fruitless. It's also easier to get used to cringey new slang when you realize it's a universal constant.
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I always felt like this was a weird argument. Language is always in flux. It's why the definition of "literally" now includes a definition that it's a synonym of "figuratively" since people used it that was so much.
If enough people think gif should be pronounced like "god", then it should. If the "jif" pronunciation has enough people who use it, then that's valid, too. Hell, if a bunch of people started legitimately saying it should be a homonym with the word "plankton," even that'd be valid.
Words are about conveying meaning; the same meaning is intended with both pronunciations, and understood by the people hearing it. There's nothing to argue about.
Yeah, I dont care how people pronounce it. It's when people get serious and militant on how it should be pronounced where I just laugh at them.
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They’re not unintuitive. Just because you think that doesn’t make it true. Tom Scott has a whole video on the topic, essentially however you first associate that word is how you think it should be pronounced. That doesn’t make it unintuitive, as would be evidenced by the pretty much 50/50 split of usage for soft g vs hard g for years. I had huge arguments about this back in like 2016/7 and it literally was a 50/50 split. Might have changed since then, but that doesn’t mean jack shit about intuitiveness.
Both pronunciations already had solid handholds in the zeitgeist by 2016, it was named 30 years before that. I'd argue the 50/50 split you provide nothing but hearsay for is proof that the hard g pronunciation is more intuitive as it was originally marketed and advertised with the soft g (and a pronunciation guide for the slogan as folks have helpfully pointed out). By your and Tom Scott's reasoning, everyone exposed to it then would use the soft g, but people in the decades after who knew nothing of the cheap marketing stunt would inevitably pronounce it however made the most sense to them. Thus the hard g pronunciation.
Now for my own personal hearsay, it's never been anywhere close to 50/50 and it's gotten more and more unbalanced towards the hard g over time. In 2011 it was maybe 70/30 hard g/soft g, now it feels like 95/5
️. But again, that's all obviously irrelevant due to it's subjectivity.
