Homeowner shoots, kills 2 men in ski masks claiming to be officers, HPD says
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lots of us said that this would be exactly what would be happening with masked police using constant escalation dominance as a tactic.
this is civil war behavior from a civilization.
it will also lead to blood feuds between people and the police as a whole. i expect to see more actual police police getting ambushed even if they are in a sanctuary city and are not acting to aid ICE.
lots of us said that this would be exactly what would be happening
And this is also what they wanted, they WANT people to start firing on cops in masks, this is the escalation they need to make the excuse for turning the US into a massive locked-down corporate prison.
"What's that? People are shooting at our precious law enforcement heroes?? Let loose the Palantir Drones! FLY MY PRETTIES!"
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The homeowner told police the two men said they were police and claimed they were at the home to serve a warrant.
[The homeowner] became suspicious, because, you know, they have a ring camera too, and the suspects were saying they had a warrant, but it was just two people and they're masked up and no police cars, no lights or anything like that," said Lt. Khan with HPD.
At some point, police said the men shot at the homeowner through the door, prompting the homeowner to return fire.
The homeowner was not hurt in the gunfire, but the two men were both hit and pronounced dead at the scene.
Quote "Stringer noted that real officers do not wear ski masks. "
So law enforcement just went on record saying ICE agents with masks are not actually law enforcement.
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It's alright, it's also kind of a waste, unless you're like clearing a small area or slinging slugs at something heavily armored you could really get everything accomplished with a traditional tube shotgun, if that doesn't work get a keltec, as far as military situations get a semi rifle or honestly even a bolt unless for some reason you're trying to kill everything 30yds in front of you multiple times.
They have their place. I have one for home defense. A shotgun requires less precision than a handgun and my wife does not devote a ton of time at the range. We also have children so she's understandly apprehensive around keeping a weapon loaded. So if you have to load the bitch when you need it, slapping that 10 round mag in is gonna be a lot easier for someone like her than trying to manually tubefeed the rounds.
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Quote "Stringer noted that real officers do not wear ski masks. "
So law enforcement just went on record saying ICE agents with masks are not actually law enforcement.
I feel like if someone dressed up as ice and joined in a raid only to cause internal chaos could deeply hinder the operations of ICE as they all become suspicious of each other and lose trust in their team.
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The homeowner told police the two men said they were police and claimed they were at the home to serve a warrant.
[The homeowner] became suspicious, because, you know, they have a ring camera too, and the suspects were saying they had a warrant, but it was just two people and they're masked up and no police cars, no lights or anything like that," said Lt. Khan with HPD.
At some point, police said the men shot at the homeowner through the door, prompting the homeowner to return fire.
The homeowner was not hurt in the gunfire, but the two men were both hit and pronounced dead at the scene.
I feel the headline should have noted that he shot in response to them shooting through his goddamn door first.
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I feel like if someone dressed up as ice and joined in a raid only to cause internal chaos could deeply hinder the operations of ICE as they all become suspicious of each other and lose trust in their team.
It's so badly organised and chaotic anyway they wouldn't even notice
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I feel like if someone dressed up as ice and joined in a raid only to cause internal chaos could deeply hinder the operations of ICE as they all become suspicious of each other and lose trust in their team.
I have a prediction: the more professional and organized members of ICE would actually be foreign agents, causing problems at key points. Say, for example, "vanishing" unfriendly politicians. ICE is the perfect cover: Low recruitment standards, no regulation, bounties for those times you need to get money, and no one able to ask questions.
It would be the chaotic and unprofessional members of ICE that are native to the USA. Those would be just into ICE for the money and racism, not patriotism to their nation. This will become a "Lions Led by Donkeys" episode in a decade or two.
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The homeowner told police the two men said they were police and claimed they were at the home to serve a warrant.
[The homeowner] became suspicious, because, you know, they have a ring camera too, and the suspects were saying they had a warrant, but it was just two people and they're masked up and no police cars, no lights or anything like that," said Lt. Khan with HPD.
At some point, police said the men shot at the homeowner through the door, prompting the homeowner to return fire.
The homeowner was not hurt in the gunfire, but the two men were both hit and pronounced dead at the scene.
Probably realised they weren't real police because they knocked rather than just kicked his door in and shot his dog.
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I feel the headline should have noted that he shot in response to them shooting through his goddamn door first.
I dont think it matters. The title conveys the idea that they weren't police. I think you could claim self defense just by that. No one that wants you to open the door falsely claiming to be policie is NOT going to hurt you
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I think you can get a III-a vest for about $500. That's not terribly expensive, but a criminal planning something like this may have been a little rushed and strapped for cash. It's been a few years since I cared to even look, so prices may have gotten higher.
You can get a IIIA vest from a Chinese factory for about $50. If you're worried about the quality, just buy two and shoot one!
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Transparency?
Transparency: noun. The quality of being done in an open way without secrets.
Example: "the DHHS office was being operated without any transparency. That is until we walked in on the Secretary in the conference room fully nude, savagely defiling the corpses of various large mammals as he quaffed a goblet of raw sewage water."
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I dont think it matters. The title conveys the idea that they weren't police. I think you could claim self defense just by that. No one that wants you to open the door falsely claiming to be policie is NOT going to hurt you
It's a huge difference. It may not seem different to you and I, but shooting someone who shoots you first is more universally viewed as acceptable self defense than only shooting people claiming to be police in skimasks on your doorstep. The headline buries the lede.
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What? If anything they're stamped aluminum.
Or uPVC doors.
Great watching the police battering rams just bounce off those when they try to break them down.
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"Stringer noted that real officers do not wear ski masks."
It's going to be very, very interesting to see how this one turns out!
Always a good idea to be aware of lethal force rules where you live:
In this case, Houston, Texas:
"The Role of the Castle Doctrine in Texas
The Castle Doctrine is a key element of Texas self-defense laws. This principle allows individuals to use force, including deadly force, to protect themselves in their homes, vehicles, or workplaces without a duty to retreat. Under Texas law, your “castle” is considered a place where you have a legal right to be, and force may be justified when:
Someone unlawfully enters or attempts to enter your home.
The intruder is committing or attempting to commit a violent act, such as robbery or assault.
You reasonably believe force is necessary to protect yourself or others.
There are some limitations to this principle. For example, the use of force is typically not justified if the intruder is retreating or if you initiated the altercation."
So, assuming the story is accurate, and remember, initial reports are almost always INACCURATE...
"At some point, police said the men shot at the homeowner through the door, prompting the homeowner to return fire."
So, yeah, as soon as they shot through the door, Castle Doctrine is in play.
In reality, if the masked intruder you shoot happens to be a cop, then Castle Doctrine is irrelevant. You're now a cop murderer. They'll figure out some legal or extra-legal way to see you behind bars or dead.
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I'm from the area. It all depends on how white and Republican you are. They stack the Grand Juries with "respectable members" of the community (white, male business owners typically) who no-bill white folk for killing minorities.
In a very public case, a white small business owner/homeowner shot 2 unarmed minorities in the back, killing both as they fled a neighbor's house. They never stepped on the killer's property and never threatened anyone. The homeowner called 911 and said he was going to kill them and get away with it. The operator said not to shoot and to go inside because police were just seconds away, and he killed them anyway.
The grand jury refused to let the prosecutor take the case to trial because killing black people is a public benefit in their eyes.
So the families of the victims sued the killer, and the state responded by outlawwing civil suits over any case involving a firearm that didn't first include a felony conviction.
as they fled a neighbor’s house
Were they leaving a neighbors house or were they in fact fleeing from robbing the neighbors house.
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I'm from the area. It all depends on how white and Republican you are. They stack the Grand Juries with "respectable members" of the community (white, male business owners typically) who no-bill white folk for killing minorities.
In a very public case, a white small business owner/homeowner shot 2 unarmed minorities in the back, killing both as they fled a neighbor's house. They never stepped on the killer's property and never threatened anyone. The homeowner called 911 and said he was going to kill them and get away with it. The operator said not to shoot and to go inside because police were just seconds away, and he killed them anyway.
The grand jury refused to let the prosecutor take the case to trial because killing black people is a public benefit in their eyes.
So the families of the victims sued the killer, and the state responded by outlawwing civil suits over any case involving a firearm that didn't first include a felony conviction.
It appears that it wouldn't speak to cases that were never brought it would only immunize them if the grand jury is sought and declines to indict OR the case is dismissed rather than requiring a conviction to bring the suit.
This means they can't opt out of liability by ignoring the case. This doesn't appear on its face to be bad law. If Texan's decline to indict when they ought to then that not the law is the issue.
Likewise if its even possible to stack the jury that again is the problem not the law.
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I'm from the area. It all depends on how white and Republican you are. They stack the Grand Juries with "respectable members" of the community (white, male business owners typically) who no-bill white folk for killing minorities.
In a very public case, a white small business owner/homeowner shot 2 unarmed minorities in the back, killing both as they fled a neighbor's house. They never stepped on the killer's property and never threatened anyone. The homeowner called 911 and said he was going to kill them and get away with it. The operator said not to shoot and to go inside because police were just seconds away, and he killed them anyway.
The grand jury refused to let the prosecutor take the case to trial because killing black people is a public benefit in their eyes.
So the families of the victims sued the killer, and the state responded by outlawwing civil suits over any case involving a firearm that didn't first include a felony conviction.
So I looked up the case for anyone's edification what happened is 2 pieces of human garbage were robbing his neighbor and running away with bags of their valuables. Aside from being robbers they had criminal convictions in Columbia for drug trafficking.
When confronted by the shotgun wielding neighbor the dangerous drug trafficking robbers refused his order for them to stop and one ran onto the neighbor's yard TOWARDS the shotgun wielding neighbor and the other ran away. He shot both.
Quoth the shooter
Horn, to dispatcher: "I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice."
Because of this the rest of the neighborhood wasn't victimized by drug dealing robbers breaking into their houses. Nobody ultimately had a run in with scumbags because someone was home when the robbers thought the place was empty. Nobodies family members got murdered to avoid leaving witnesses. Nobodies sanctity got violated.
But don't worry the New Black Panthers protested the scumbags deaths and threatened the fellow making their entire side look deranged and unreasonable when there are plenty of bad shoots by trigger happy cops perpetrated against actually innocent victims they could have been focusing on.
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So I looked up the case for anyone's edification what happened is 2 pieces of human garbage were robbing his neighbor and running away with bags of their valuables. Aside from being robbers they had criminal convictions in Columbia for drug trafficking.
When confronted by the shotgun wielding neighbor the dangerous drug trafficking robbers refused his order for them to stop and one ran onto the neighbor's yard TOWARDS the shotgun wielding neighbor and the other ran away. He shot both.
Quoth the shooter
Horn, to dispatcher: "I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice."
Because of this the rest of the neighborhood wasn't victimized by drug dealing robbers breaking into their houses. Nobody ultimately had a run in with scumbags because someone was home when the robbers thought the place was empty. Nobodies family members got murdered to avoid leaving witnesses. Nobodies sanctity got violated.
But don't worry the New Black Panthers protested the scumbags deaths and threatened the fellow making their entire side look deranged and unreasonable when there are plenty of bad shoots by trigger happy cops perpetrated against actually innocent victims they could have been focusing on.
This definitely shows a lot of perspective, thank you!
I really wish people looked at these cases more objectively, considering the humans involved and not simply:
"How can I paint this to forward my narrative obsession of the moment?"
It's like our entire society is based around social media clout farming. I know weaponized reporting is nothing new, but sheesh.
I wouldn't feel I had much choice either, if someone who just robbed a neighbor was charging at me in the dark. Suddenly after the fact, the internet is chock full of experts in ballistics and self defense law.
But you're right, it definitely defeated a future threat to the neighborhood residents. I haaaaate suburban Rambo Nextdoor toughguys as much as the next reasonable person, but this doesn't sound like that.
There's plenty of systemic issues to tackle around crime, but breaking into peoples' homes to loot and potentially harm them is always a choice carrying a significant weight of FAFO.
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It's so badly organised and chaotic anyway they wouldn't even notice
Fair point. My girlfriend is Irish and compared them to the black and tans.
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lots of us said that this would be exactly what would be happening
And this is also what they wanted, they WANT people to start firing on cops in masks, this is the escalation they need to make the excuse for turning the US into a massive locked-down corporate prison.
"What's that? People are shooting at our precious law enforcement heroes?? Let loose the Palantir Drones! FLY MY PRETTIES!"
They don't need the excuse, just look at D.C. in the past week. And escalation will only make things worse for them. They're looking at an armed insurgency situation akin to the "War on Terror," which proved that an entrenched group amongst the populace is impossible to oust because anybody could be an insurgent, and taking one out will create more people willing to take revenge. There used to be an excellent Flash game about this very point where you shot cruise missiles at terrorists walking across the screen. And every time that a missile would explode, it would inevitably hit civilians in the area, and those nearby would turn into more terrorists. You'd just continue to fill the screen with more and more terrorists than there were originally until eventually you gave up.
Somebody a few weeks ago said in a thread on a similar subject that the military's conclusion was that you need about 3 soldiers for every insurgent in a population. There's no way that they can draft as much as theoretically 75% of the population.
It's a whole lot of bluster, and if we could get organized we could topple the whole thing. ICE has homes they go back to at the end of the day. They don't have army bases to hide in.
